Both Lives Podcast

S2E6 - South Africa’s baby abandonment crisis: A conversation with Aoife Kelly de Klerk

This week, Dawn is joined by Aoife Kelly de Klerk. Originally from  Tipperary, Ireland, Aoife began her career as an Occupational Therapist.
In 2019, she founded Tevah Moshe in response to the baby abandonment crisis in South Africa. Aoife’s husband Leon shared that during his time studying to become a civil engineer, he visited a water treatment facility and was confronted by the reality that one of the largest contributors to drain blockages are discarded foetuses. 
It is estimated that 3500 babies are found abandoned across South Africa each year, and for every one baby found alive two are found dead.
After 14 years in South Africa, Aoife returned to Ireland for 3 years. She is now a working artist exploring faith, empathy, and belonging and currently resides in Toronto, Canada. 
Aoife’s website: https://kellydeklerk.com/content
Tevah Moshe: https://tevahmoshe.com/
Article: Is abandoning a baby in a safe box a crime or an act of love? Court to decide: https://groundup.org.za/article/is-abandoning-a-baby-in-a-safe-box-a-crime-or-an-act-of-love-pretoria-high-court-to-decide/
Dawn and Lisa also discuss comments from listeners, highlight a new website initiative from the US Government and celebrate a good news story of a baby girl who was born after her mother engaged with abortion pill reversal treatment.
https://www.moms.gov/
Let’s continue the conversation, send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: www.bothlives.co.uk
Facebook & X: @BothLivesInstagram: @BothLivesUK
 

S2E5 – Pregnancy crises: Is adoption an option? A conversation with Sue Lucas

This week, Dawn is joined by Sue Lucas, a retired Early Years teacher and advisor from Somerset. Sue and her husband adopted both of their daughters as babies and are now proud grandparents.
In the 1990s, Sue co-founded the charity ASIST with a group of adopters, driven by a vision that any woman, wherever she lived, could easily access information about baby adoption as a positive and informed choice in the face of an unplanned or crisis pregnancy. The charity went on to work with pregnancy counselling centres, run a helpline and website, and engage with local and national government across political parties.
Also in this episode, Dawn and Lisa reflect on an encouraging listener comment, dive into a lively social media discussion, and share highlights from a busy week of events, revealing a growing desire across the UK for people to be equipped to speak up for both lives in pregnancy.
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: bothlives.co.uk
Facebook & X: @BothLivesInstagram: @BothLivesUK
Let’s continue the conversation, send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk

S2E4 - Healthcare for both lives – A conversation with two of the doctors involved

This week, Dawn is joined by Dr Melody Redman and Dr Grace Petkovic to discuss Healthcare for Both Lives, a new initiative founded by healthcare professionals responding to a lack of support and representation for those committed to caring for both pregnant women and their pre-born children.
They explore why the group was established and how it promotes compassionate, evidence-based care, supports like-minded professionals, and contributes to both public and professional conversations on these important issues.
Find out more: https://www.healthcareforbothlives.org/
Dawn and Lisa also discuss conflicting media narratives and reflect on how a recent university speaking engagement revealed a generation ready and willing to say that both lives matter.
Let’s continue the conversation, send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk

S2E3 – From pro-choice to pro-both: A conversation with Alicia Edmund

Alicia Edmund, head of public policy at the Evangelical Alliance, joins Dawn to share how she went from identifying as pro-choice during her late teens and early 20s to embracing a pro-both perspective through faith and discipleship.
They also discuss bringing Christian conviction into political advocacy and lament the recent House of Lords vote on decriminalising abortion, and what it looks like for the church to lead the way in valuing both lives in pregnancy.
Let’s continue the conversation, send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: bothlives.co.uk
Follow us on social media:
Facebook & X: @BothLives
Instagram: @BothLivesUK

Bonus episode: God Unborn – Nine months between the angel and the manger

When God the Son became flesh, He developed in the womb and was born of a woman, like all babies are. Joining us in the fullness of our humanity from that point was intentional, so it must matter. Yet we don’t tend to think about those nine months before Jesus’ birth. With this God Unborn series, we are led to think about the circumstances and the people at the point at which the Word became flesh, and ask God to reveal to us what He planned that we’ve forgotten, or perhaps never noticed.
Find out more and access the Lectio Divina devotional resources: www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/both-lives/god-unborn
Let’s continue the conversation, send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: bothlives.co.uk
Follow us on social media:
Facebook & X: @BothLives
Instagram: @BothLivesUK

S2E2 – How abortion law changed the culture of medicine – A conversation with Professor John Wyatt

John Wyatt is an Emeritus Professor of Neonatal Paediatrics, Ethics & Perinatology at University College London and a senior researcher at the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion. A former consultant neonatologist, he spent over 25 years caring for critically ill newborns and researching the causes, treatment, and prevention of brain injury in infants. His clinical experience led to a deep interest in the ethical challenges surrounding the beginning and end of life. Now retired from frontline medicine, he focuses on the philosophical, ethical, and theological implications of advances in medical technology, artificial intelligence, and robotics, particularly in relation to the Christian faith.
 
Find out more about Professor Wyatt’s work: www.johnwyatt.com/Matters of Life and Death Podcast: www.johnwyatt.com/podcast/In this episode, Dawn and John Wyatt explore the origins of neonatology and reflect on how abortion law has shaped the culture of modern medicine.
Dawn and Lisa also discuss the recent landmark vote in the House of Lords on abortion decriminalisation, consider comments made by Zara Larsson, and examine how the cultural conversation has shifted from celebrating access to abortion to celebrating the act of abortion.Let’s continue the conversation, send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: bothlives.co.uk
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S2E1 - Is silent prayer a crime? – A conversation with Isabel Vaughan-Spruce

This week, Dawn is joined by Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, Co-Director of March for Life UK and Campaign Director for 40 Days for Life Birmingham. Together they explore Isabel's work, her story, and what motivates her involvement in both national pro-both advocacy and local prayer vigils.
March for Life: www.marchforlife.co.uk/
40 Days for Life: www.40daysforlife.com/en/
Let’s continue the conversation — send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: bothlives.co.uk
Facebook & X: @BothLivesInstagram: @bothlivesuk

Season two - Teaser episode

Welcome to Season two of the Both Lives Podcast!We love to hear from you - get in touch by emailing us at stand@bothlives.co.uk
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: bothlives.co.uk
Follow us on social media:
Facebook & X: @BothLives
Instagram: @BothLivesUK

S1E12 - Advent - A season of reflection and hope

In this episode, Dawn and Lisa reflect on the insights shared by our expert guests, answer listeners' questions and explore what it means to view the Advent season through a pro-both lens.The Both Lives Podcast will return in February 2026.God Unborn Advent devotional 2025: www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/both-lives/god-unborn/god-unborn-advent-2025
Let’s continue the conversation, send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: bothlives.co.uk
Follow us on social media:
Facebook & X: @BothLives
Instagram: @BothLivesUK

S1E11 - Carrying Hope - A conversation with author Beth Appleby

This week, Dawn is joined by the author of Carrying Hope: Expecting Death, Delivering Life, Beth Appleby. Together they’ll explore Beth’s heartfelt and deeply vulnerable story of a pregnancy destined to end in death by the medical world but fore which God has other plans.
Buy Carrying Hope: Expecting Death, Delivering Life or contact Beth at:
carryinghope.co.uk
Let’s continue the conversation, send your questions and comments to stand@bothlives.co.uk
Find out more about the work of Both Lives and sign up to our free monthly newsletter: bothlives.co.uk
Follow us on social media:
Facebook & X: @BothLives
Instagram: @BothLivesUK
If you or someone you know has been impacted by anything discussed in this episode, you can access support and resources via the services directory listed on our website.